Monday, October 27, 2008

Hamlet Act 1 Fishbowl

121 comments:

annes said...

Why does Shakespeare continue to use garden imagery throughout act 1?

Pat said...

hi

TaylorH2009 said...

yes

KCH2009 said...

hey pat.

Kim C. 2010 said...

yes?

mollyp2010 said...

goldfish

Pat said...

hows life KC?

Pat said...

hows life KC?

RickM2009 said...

annes: Shakespeare continues to use garden imagery throughout act 1 to draw parallels between gardens and people, and how a weeded garden can be just like a human with flaws.

Wil... said...

yo-ski bro-ski

MollyT177 said...

The garden imagery is used as a representation of humans and how they are internaly.

If a gareden is thick and weeded it can represent inner strugle or even a rotten nature, their soul is over grown and tangled.

If the garden is well kempt and tended then the sould is healthy.

it could also be used as a form of foreshadowing, or to tell more about the modd throught the play.

SaraB2009 said...

I LOVE GOLDFISH!!!!!!!!!!1

mollyp2010 said...

as molly and rick have been saying, it is clear that hamlet is a troubled and conflicted person-like a weedy garden.

KatieO2010 said...

The garden is the country, the setting, the plants are the characters. Some are beautiful, others are ugly. Some plants can attack others and kill them. Plants can die, characters can die. If all the plants die, the Garden dies.

TaylorH2009 said...

i believe that shakespeare used the garden imagery to show the beauty in the land they live while the horror and desparity of the kings death

Wil... said...

The portrayal of garden imagery cuts through Shakespeare's brilliance like a knife through bread. The Garden imagery construes the fact that Shakespeare wanted a natural setting as well as the crowded mind of Hamlet like a garden untended.

Kim C. 2010 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kim C. 2010 said...

Im glad that everyone likes the goldfish :D. Anyway, to respond to others.

Mollyt: I really like how you said that the gardens represent the people and their emotions. How do we see this imagery in the Character hamlet. If he was a garden what would it be?

Kim C. 2010 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kim C. 2010 said...

Im glad that everyone likes the goldfish :D. Anyway, to respond to others.

Mollyt: I really like how you said that the gardens represent the people and their emotions. How do we see this imagery in the Character hamlet. If he was a garden what would it be?

Kim C. 2010 said...

Im glad that everyone likes the goldfish :D. Anyway, to respond to others.

Mollyt: I really like how you said that the gardens represent the people and their emotions. How do we see this imagery in the Character hamlet. If he was a garden what would it be?

EricL2009 said...

Anne: Shakespeare uses the garden to show that people are beautiful just like a garden is. He uses it to show how the parallels that god and nature are so closely related.

IreneL2010 said...

Anne: The garden imagery might be used to symbolize a rebirth or the growth of something or someone. Because a garden is always growing it might represent Denmark moving into a new era with Hamlet's uncle as the king.

KCH2009 said...

to contradict mollyt, it could be that if the gerden is full or weeds then it is natural and un tampered. and if its clean and tended to then is unpure and not natural

MollyT177 said...

katie deffinetly has a diffrent perspective of the garden imagrey, saying that instead it represents the statte and the things growing in it are the people.

wouild the weeds in the garden then be the more vile characters? the villans so to speak? or would Hamlet himself be a weed in the garden?

Pat said...

I think the garden captures the tone the author set to show the town’s people's lack of sympathy over the mourning of the king

KendraS2009 said...

The garden imagery shows trouble and conflict within a person if it is a weeded garden, and if the garden is clear, there is no trouble or problems.

Wil... said...

legit.

TaylorH2009 said...

Kc i like how you dont see the garden as a beautiful one but rather one that is full of weeds but has potential to become a garden of the gods. . . . no pun intended

EricB2009 said...

annes. I think that they continue to use the garden because they want to show a different and more elegant side to there society and at the same time trying to show a different side from the evil they also have in there lives such as the ghost

EricL2009 said...

Kim: I think that Hamlet would be a Rose. I believe this since he is so emotional and really values love and that what a rose represents and also because of the thorns’ on the rose represent his other side of him and the more fighting side that he has.

Pat said...

Garnden symbolizes the circle of life?

Pat said...

haha

MollyT177 said...

kim, if Hamlet were a garden i think it would most deffinetley be weedy, but just the beggining of weeds would be showing.

I think his garden would still be healthy if his father were still alive. I think that the weeds in his garden would be ones of anger and scorn twords his mother for not grieving over his fathers death. I also think that the weeds would stem from a hatred for his uncle.

TaylorS2009 said...

The garden could symbolize the entire group of people that we are looking at in the story and the individuals are the plants. The entire garden seems to be very poorly kept and it's starting to grow over other parts, and the entire garden is a huge mess. This is happening in so many different ways, anger, grief, greed and other things.

Wil... said...

sooooo thirrssstyyy

EricB2009 said...

Pat. I think that it doesnt represent the cirlce of life but rather the good side to there life that has evil in it.

DrewB2009 said...

I think the garden is more full of weeds as well which could symbolize the conflict and possibly war to come.

mollyp2010 said...

response to the inner circle: I dont think that Hamlet's grief will get in the way of him getting what he wants. if anything, I think that this will fuel his desire- having passion and anger behind his actions.

IreneL2010 said...

Kim: I think that Hamlet began like a tangled and weed-filled garden because his life had been so full of confusion, despair, and anger because of his father's death. But after the ghost speaks to him and tells him the truth, his garden is slowly unraveling itself to reveal the truth.

KCH2009 said...

Pat. the garden is obviously a symbol of the circle of life but its all what the circle is made of. weeds or flowers?

TaylorH2009 said...

i believe that hamlets ggrief will only drive him to achieve more and it will not play into his life in any negative manner but rather that he is only stronger than previously before

annes said...

Why did Shakespeare write this play with such heavy religious symbols and references?

EricL2009 said...

KC and Tayler: I never thought as the garden to be a badthing and how that their could be weeds and it not be as beautiful as a garden is normally seen. Now that you say that i believe that this garden is not beautiful with all of the death, incest and tragic events that has happened.

MollyT177 said...

Responce to the inner circle: I think his grief may in fact get in the way of what he wants. Grief is a powerfull emotion and at time can blind people from rational thought and reasoning. Hamlet is a tragedy so i can very well see this being his downfall.

Pat said...

or good vs. evil

Wil... said...

The deprivation of a clean mind represents the evidence of a betrayal and the fact that the king has become a martyr in Hamlet's eyes, almost a god to him and that no one will ever match his stat.

KendraS2009 said...

Molly: I agree that Hamlet's grief will not get in the way. I think it will motivate him to get what he wants. I believe that his father motivated him to avenge his death and take his uncle down.

TaylorH2009 said...

Anne: i believe he wrote this story with such a religous connotation because at the time it was written religion would have played heavily into the decision of hamlets coronation and the death of the king. It is a extremely religous time and is evident in all aspects of life

KCH2009 said...

i agree with mollyp. hamlets grief will lite his fire and get him going in the right direction

RickM2009 said...

New question-


What literary parallels do we see between Hamlet and other literary works created since then? For instance, the re-appearance of a ghost after a significant death in order to guide survivors was seen in Charles Dickens's A Christmas Carol, much like old Hamlet comes back to visit his son.

EricL2009 said...

Anne: He wrote this play with such religious symbols since people were very religious back in his time and he wanted to show maybe what the weaknesses of the religion could be and what he thought could be changed about these religions.

KatieO2010 said...

Are weeds a bad thing then? They pop up everywhere and are not necessarily pretty, but all they try to do is survive, they don't need to be pretty, they just want to be, is that so bad?

DrewB2009 said...

Do you think Hamlets grieving is appropriate or unmanly?

IreneL2010 said...

Anne: I believe that Shakespeare wrote this play with many religious symbols and references because of the time this was written in. He needed to convey certain emotions and thoughts to the audience, and this was easily achieved because knowledge of religion was abundant. The only way to help the audience better understand the story was to use a language that the majority would identify with.

annes said...

outer circle- remembera few things.Use proper grammar and stay on topic.Also, participate in the inner circle conversation by coming into the inner circle. Restating others ideas doesn't count for quality.

mollyp2010 said...

I think that the religious references and symbolism are first of all, a reflection of the time period. I could be wrong on this, but i believe at the time that this was written, the society was mostly christian, however there was definitely religous unrest. Also, possibly comparing important political figures(kings) to god...

MollyT177 said...

I believe that religion is put so heavily in this play because back in that time it was a core part of society.

Religion will most deffinetly be a heavy infuence on young Hamlet throught the play.

IreneL2010 said...

Drew: Personally, I think that it is very appropriate for Hamlet to grieve. But the confrontation with his uncle and mother is important to the story because it fuels the fire in him to preserve his father's name and legacy.

EricB2009 said...

Annes. I think that Shakespere used alot of relious refernces because he is trying to show how big of an influence it has on good vs. evil and also the garden imagery to the people.

KCH2009 said...

when does he get to the "to be or not to be" part?

EricL2009 said...

. Drew: I think that his grieving is appropriate for given that he has lost his father; however, he has been taking a long time to get over it and his grieving seems a little excessive.
Why has Gertrude gotten over the King so fast? Is this a little odd?

KendraS2009 said...

Drew: I think that Hamlet's grieving is appropriate. Showing emotion is not unmanly at all. He just lost his father so he should be grieving. Eventually he will have to let go of his grief but it will take a long time for him to get over his loss.

MollyT177 said...

Drewb:

I think Hamlets grieving is approcpriate. It's natural to grieve over someones death, maly or not. I think that it's his other emotions that are slowly corrupting him. Such as his anger twords his mother and uncle, the grieving is healthy, the anger is becoming rather unhealthy. Mixing with the grief of his fathers death it is becoming something toxic to his person.

Kim C. 2010 said...

Drewb: I think that when Hamlet shows his grief he feels that he has to be more intense and sad about it because no onr else seems to be sad about this. More over it depends on the definition of what manliness is. I honestly think that he is the most honest character and the fact that he doesnt complete hide his emotions shows that he is honest, and it helps him fit into the tragic hero characteristic, because the audience identifies with him and feels bad for him.

Wil... said...

The weeds are not necessarily a bad thing, a person must have "weeds" in order to improve oneself. The delineation of the weeds is evidence of the fact that Claudius is admonishing Hamlet to not embrace his sorrow.

DrewB2009 said...

I think Hamlets grieving is appropriate, especially because of the actions of his uncle and mother. It seems that people have forgotten about Hamlets father way too fast and the fact that his mother would marry his uncle at all is a little messed up. Not to mention they were married a month after the death of the kings own brother.

RickM2009 said...

annes- I think the religious symbolism is a sign of the times as much as it is something Shakespeare would have used to add literary merit.


drewb-I think it is appropriate, and this is reinforced by the ghost telling him what really happened.

KatieO2010 said...

Anne: when the characters reference God, they imply that he is watching, judging them for their actions. In that way, we, in a sense, are God, because we judge him, we see all he does.

MollyT177 said...

refering to the talk in the inner circle, is the ghost something from god? or is the ghost soemthing elese entirely? maybe it's all in everyones head, maybe people are just seeing things? is Hamlet even in his right mind?

EricB2009 said...

Inner Circle. I think that Hamlet is dreaming that god is telling him to go kill. He also isnt thinking right because he thinks killing is a good thing. God in my opinion didnt tell him to go off and kill.

Wil... said...

What if the god that is watching is Hamlet's father? sending signs to Hamlet telling him that he is gone, and should grieve but not let it take over his life.

IreneL2010 said...

In response to the inner circle discussion:
What does the ghost actually want Hamlet to do? (since God wouldn't send him to kill...)

Pat said...

Connection between religious wars. since when was killing for god a good or acceptable thing?

EricL2009 said...

Drew; to go with my other statement Hamlet wanted to kill himself over the lss of his father. that is a little inapprpriate if you ask me. why would you kill yourself over the loss of someone? Its hard to get over but know that the person who died would not want you to kill yourself for their death.

KendraS2009 said...

Hamlet did not just imagine the ghost because his friends saw it too. He is in his right mind in this sense.

MollyT177 said...

Maybe Hamlet is so blinded by his grief that he uses the ghost as an excuse to go kill his uncle.

Myabe Hamlet has convinced himself that god has sent him this ghost as a sign and that it is his devine duty to go kill.

could Hamlet be driven by fear and anger? maybe insanity?

RickM2009 said...

mollyt- More than a sign from God, I believe the ghost is Hamlet's father watching over Hamlet, and being dissatisfied with how his life was ended.

TaylorH2009 said...

agreeing with eric if i killed myself i would not want boten to kill himself or another to avenge me. hamlet is stuck in the middle between a decision that is not righteous nor condoned by the church

KendraS2009 said...

Pat: Killing for God is never acceptable or ok. Sometimes it is neccesary but it is still a sin and is not ok.

Kim C. 2010 said...

Irene- I think that the ghost of Hamlet's father really is coming of his own accord. Also, I think that he must kill Claudis because like all or at least most tragic heroes he doesn't have a choice in what happens fate is not in his hands.

EricL2009 said...

inner circle: If it is a sin to kill someone and thats why he does not kill himself then he will have trouble killing someone else. Wouldnt it be less of a sin to kill yourself other than kill someone else? Wouldnt it be less of a sin to take your own life away other than somone elses.

EricB2009 said...

i love books :0

KCH2009 said...

could god be testing hamlet? pushing him to kill his uncle but? did he fail the test by killing his uncle? or did he pass it?

EricL2009 said...

Why have people not asked or Shakespearetols us how King Hamlet has died?

TaylorH2009 said...

to eric: Im pretty sure that taking your own life in the churchs eyes is just if not more of a sin than killing someone else. so to choose between the options would be picking snake poison or rat poison either way your over.

TaylorS2009 said...

Hamlet could just say that the ghost, sent by posibly god, told him to kill his uncle. This is one of the most common things that happen with religion. People always use religions as a scapegoat for their actions. Look at the Crusades, they went to go get back thier land and then they ended up even killing other Christians. Look at the suicide bombers, they think they will get directly into heaven by blowing themselves up.

Wil... said...

to Inner circle: Would Hamlet's father be telling Hamlet to kill the Uncle because the uncle stole Hamlet's father's wife and the throne...? It is a possibility that Hamlet is the manifestation of his father and his father is seeking revenge...

KendraS2009 said...

Molly: I think that Hamlet is driven by anger. He does not really have a reason to be afraid and I think that he is perfectly sane, just a little upset. He is angry because of his father's deatha nd the marriage between his mother and uncle. This will motivate him to avenge his uncle because his uncle was the cause of all of Hamlet's anger.

TaylorH2009 said...

Yes im quite curious how in fact did the king parish?

DrewB2009 said...

Pat: I agree, killing for God does not make it acceptable. Hamlet is not thinking clearly because he is depressed, so he may do something that he would not normally do.

MollyT177 said...

The death of king Hamlet has probably not been revealed because this is a play, Hamlet doesn't know how his father was killed, so why should we?

mnaybe it's to keep us geusing, maybe it will be revealed later on the play. It's probably not told to us to keep us immersed in the book, to keep watching to keep reading, to find out how. to keep asking 'why?'

EricB2009 said...

Inner cirlce. I think that god isnt the only thing that is effecting Hamlet but at the same time his father has an influence on him. For that matter I thought that Hamlets father could be the god that is telling him what to do?

KendraS2009 said...

Kch: God would not test someone by asking them to kill someone else.

mollyp2010 said...

I dont think that god sent the ghost- if you think about it, people go to extreme lengths for peopole that they loved. I mean, Hamlet is in grieving and missing his father, and then allof the sudden, his father appears again. Its not so far fetched to believe that he would go to extremes for his dad.

Pat said...

I think Hamlet’s anger is influencing him not god. God might be his excuse to peruse his blinded views. Religion is how he is persuading his followers to take his side. Maybe he is using religion to convince himself he is right not noticing his flaw that is shading the big picture

KCH2009 said...

kendra: but didnt he do that with abraham? in the bible?

KendraS2009 said...

I do not think God sent the ghost because the ghost asked Hamlet for revenge. God does not ask people for revenge or ask them to kill people in any way.

TaylorS2009 said...

In response to the inner circle, I think hamlet will go to any length to avenge his father and to kill his uncle. He is a tragic hero, it is expected of him to let his emotions take control over logic.

IreneL2010 said...

Response to inner circle: I think that Hamlet will avenge his father through murder. He is confused and angry. And out of his emotions, he will do whatever it takes to do what his father wants. (Even if we know it isn't what the ghost wanted him to do, it's what Hamlet thinks he wants)

Kim C. 2010 said...

In the inner circle-- one of the main topics being discussed is selfishness.

Is hamlet really being selfish for wanting to get revenge on the man who he believes killed his father?

Is hamlet debating suicide?

What is the importance of selfishness in the entire play, Can't we see all of the characters being selfish in their own ways?

Hamlet- upset that no one else is grieving with him

Claudis- killing his father for the throne

Gertrude- Remarrying the uncle to be saved from loneliness

Ophelia- Love for hamlet is she shown as crazy, because so far she seems to be the only one without selfish tendencies?

MollyT177 said...

Inner circle: I would have to agree that Hamlet would kill his uncle out of revenge with no problems.

But, would he have problems after? Would this mentally mess Hamlet up? He is basicly doing what his uncle did, killing another person for the throne.

But would he be more justified if it were for the sake of revenge?

Pat said...

Maybe the ghost is a symbol of the people’s guilt from not mourning the king’s death longer

MollyT177 said...

Adressing the inner cicle: Then is it the devil (or something unfriendly and evil), not god, who is affecting Hamlet?

Lauren L said...

Drew & Pat: killing for god is not acceptable and thats where a lot of people justify right and wrong. The terrorists on 9/11 believed that they were killing for good and the attacks were obviously not right.

KendraS2009 said...

Kch: Good point. Then in that case if Hamlet kills his uncle he will fail the test. With Abraham it was a slightly different situation, though. It does not compare exactly because Abraham was asked to make a sacrifice where as Hamlet will be killing for revenge.

Lauren L said...

I meant god not good. My b!

IreneL2010 said...

Kim: Though Hamlet is depressed about his father's death, I believe that he isn't thinking about his own pain enough to take his own life before he does whatever it takes to keep his promise to his father. So if he does, it won't be until after he avenges his father.

EricL2009 said...

Is their any other way of revenging his fathers dealth then by killing someone else?

TaylorH2009 said...

Killing for God is not a righteous decision....THOU SHALT NOT KIll there is no gray area with that so how could we justify murder by a divine spirit coming to hamlet when he is reality is not a divine spitirt

KatieO2010 said...

I agree with eric, if Hamlet found a way to prove that his Uncle killed his father and his Uncle was punished (probably put to death) wouldnt that avenge his father? That would put Hamlet on the throne and justice would be served.

RickM2009 said...

ericl- While there may be another way, I believe Hamlet sees murder as the only revenge. The eye-for-an-eye philosophy has already been seen in how the character Fortinbras intends to avenge his fathers death, by regaining the land that was lost that led to his death.

MollyT177 said...

eric, i dont think there is any other possible way to avenge his fathers death.

Hamlet is virtually backed into a corner right now with limited, to almost no options.

Killing his uncle seems to be the only way right now. Unless he could convincwe the entire kingdon that his uncle was corrupt and they could overthrow him.

But that seems improbable, a kings word, against a heavily grieving son.

who would win? obviously the king

KendraS2009 said...

Is Gertrude's fear of being alone the only reason she married Claudius? Or was there some other reason?

TaylorS2009 said...

Instead of killing his uncle, Hamlet could have just exposed his uncle and let everyone know and then he could have rotted in prison.

TaylorH2009 said...

i think that he could avenge his fathers death by showing how cladius is truly the murderer and that his fathers death was not of natural casues and rightfully restoring his place on the throne

mollyp2010 said...

thats an interseting thought that everyone in the play is selfish-eventhe ghosty of hamlets father. I didnt know that ghosts could be selfish.

KatieO2010 said...

Kendra: Gertrude probably had no other choice, women had very few rights during those times, I doubt she had any say in the matter. She may have wanted to hold onto power as well.

TaylorS2009 said...

Wouldn't telling someone to kill somone else be indirect murder in a sense? Wouldn't that just send both the king and Hamlet to hell?

DrewB2009 said...

Eric: I think if he just proved his uncle killed Hamlets father that would be good enough. If he kills his uncle he is just lowering himself to that level and committing a sin.

IreneL2010 said...

Response to Drew in the inner circle: I agree completely. He is only thinking about himself and what Hamlet can do for him after his death. He doesn't care what happens to Hamlet. This goes along with what Mrs. Smith was saying about how all of the characters are selfish. Hamlet's father wants Hamlet to avenge him, Hamlet wants to ease his pain by getting even, Claudius wants the power, and Gertrude wants the man.

So, what are the tragic flaw(s)of each character?